Some Samplings from The Army of God (U.S. version) Manual:

If terminally ill, use your final months to torch clinics; by the time the authorities identify you, you will have gone to your reward.

Use a high-powered rifle to fire bullets into the engine block of a doctor's car.

Never make a bomb threat from anywhere but a pay phone.

Hot-wire a bulldozer at a construction site, drive it to a clinic, jump off and let the bulldozer crash through the clinic wall.

Drop butyric acid into dumpsters or boxes of trash when people are in the building.

Put holes through clinic windows. The problem with .22-caliber weapons is the noise-the Fourth of July and New Year's Eve are great times for gunshots.

Why get out of the way of an abortionist's car? The current lawsuit-crazy attitude can be used against baby-killers, and many awards have been received.

This is what blind belief, bigotry, and intolerance lead some of the more unenlightened members of the xian community to do. Cheers.

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that two friends have broken up over this tread

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In what way does this bother you? You would have to acknowledge that if two people are no longer friends because of a disagreement, they were never friends in the first place. So why live with a veil in front of our eyes? It is actually better to find out who's who, don't you think? True friendship goes past everything man, and I know that for a fact. I've had huge quarrels with good friends (real friends, real people), and after the initial moment of madness, it was all as good as before the incident, if not better. I'm curious to know why it affects you though.

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Originally posted by Valerian:
My scientific evidence in favor of a creator is that there is no proof.
An old argument for sure, yet I took it further within myself.
(I will explain.)

No proof of an origin of the universe and no proof of the origin of life.
People have somehow got it in their heads that if they can "prove" evolution on a macro scale then it's a "done deal".
lol
My "book of myths" covers evolution, quite well. It is there for all to see. Acknowledged.

You, figure it out. It took me 20yrs. I aint givin the answer away. Because it doesnt mean a thing to anyone, unless they figure it out on their own. I dont mind a little "hand holding" but come on.

Noahs Ark? Please. Those people were a done deal and God knew it. Remember, there was no messiah then. :rolleyes:

btw: non-interference is just that. No "trinity".

Jesus was a man. Not God. A man.
It was a man that fell. So it had to be a man that paid the bill.
If it was God hanging on the cross, then you might as well kiss free will goodbye.

The "trinity" was just some mans way of telling a believer that they understood something that the believer didnt.
It was bullshit then and it is bullshit now. But once you get a person who is just willing to take your word for it, well then, welcome to denomination central. The rest is history.

Doubt me? Good. Ask around about the Y chromosome.

Arrogance. Yeah.
The man Jesus, on the night before His execution, asked God to "take this cup from my lips". He didnt want to go through it. He made it perfectly clear, that He didnt want the job. Yet He said, "Your will not mine, be done."

Just drips with arrogance, don't it? :rolleyes:

This is almost done.
You know what really gets me?
That people think they have to "throw out" their intellect (I'll use that one loosley) in order to believe in God.
Right chuddds? Sure. I'm just part of the herd. :)
Oh, right.
btw, chuddds, if you are going to use the Bible to argue a point, why dispute it to argue another? Shit or get off the pot, my man. :D

Speaking of "The Bible"; I placed an "abutment" to a statement made by a member of this discussion, in regard to The Bible.
No response.

andy, a finite number. Yes. Definitley.
Now ask yourself this;
Why would God ever desire to reach out to her own creation?

theoldbogman,
My condolences to you and your family.

Be well.

V.

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Thats original, the proof is no proof. That sounds familar. Youre right, that is an old theory. I say exact opposite. No proof, then why make up ridiculous legends and myths in order to try and explain it. Just try to be a little more secure with OUR ignorance and come up with the best possible answer that modern science can provide. Making up horsehit stories to explain the world and humanity is so old, I cant believe that humans have to still resort to that type of quackery. Really is comical to me !

What is a "done deal"? I havnt heard anyone here say that proof of evolution on a macro scale proved anything but evoulution does exist. Anyone who says that they can explain the origin of the earth and its inhabitants by the theory of evolution is just a crazy as any christian.

I use your bible to justify and dispute itself to demonstrate just exactly how retarded the book is. And it is hardly a "book". It is a collection of stories that contradicts itself to no end. How many times has this bible been interpreted, translated, and then republish. And, of course, with no errors along the way.lol! And what a slap in the face for hebrews that christians have the odacity to combine their torah with the christian fairy tales. At least the torah is a LAW book. The christian new testament is only a testament to how easy it is to bullshit millions out of their money. It is a completely blind faith set of fantasies. Can you tell me the author(s) of everything written in the christian portion?(new testament) Can you tell me which portions were written by the yet mythical existence of some person named jesus? Can you prove this person ever even existed at all?

"Quoting the bible to argue a point, then using it to dispute another, shit or get off the pot." If you cant understand that, then you are doomed to christian herd mentality and all its suffrage. You NEED to be a christian, youve got no other choice. Evolution dealt you from the bottom of the deck. I will shit, then get off the pot, and then wipe my ass with the new testament, thats all its worth.

If you are talking about me with your abutment, I did answer in a reply to Andy, just thought you would read it there. It is either on this page or the one before it. I believe you asked me if I had read the new testament. Yes, not only have I read it, but I have scoured it. And it is pretty funny, actually. Memo covered some of the inconsistencies, but there are many more. And AGAIN, who wrote it? When did they write it? Did this person named jesus write any of it? Why isnt his name mentioned in any other piece of literature, anywhere, in that time period of his supposed life?

Your book of myths covers evolution, quite well, what a joke.

You aint givin the answer away. Because you aint got an answer. Pure brilliance !

So you have a different perspective on christianity and the trinity. So do many other splinter factions. Youre still a christian, in a religion, member of the herd!

Who cares about noahs ark? i dont care what religion a person belongs to, if anyone believes that story, get the straight jacket !!!!

The Y chromosome, infinity, proof is no proof, man you are really stuck on some old, worn out postitions. When you said you been thinking about this for 20 years, I didnt know you hadnt learned anything in that time!!! cheap shot, to good to pass up !!!

Here is the a major part of your argument. You can never start from the position of total denial of a god, gods, or messiahs. You will always be stuck with starting at a person named jesus, who you cant prove even ever existed. The old testament does not contain the word "jesus", not even once. So now you are contained with an argument that has only one source, the new testament, and what a shoddy source that is. You are basically screwed from the start. Thats a product of your RCC upbringing. You really never had a chance because they started programing you while your CPU and HD were in the developmental stage. I will be difficult to break that cycle, but it almost sounds like youre heading in the right direction. Nothing that a clean reformat wouldnt fix !

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SloppyGoat, The perfect Answer, if only some others could see it that way. [theoldbogman]

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First of all, I'd like to thank you, oldbogman, for one hell of a compliment. It feels really good to know that I'm not merely insane like christians seem to tell me constantly. Reinforcing my sanity is the nicest thing anyone can do, since I do feel, at times, that I'm alone in my thinking.

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because things were better before and now there not, its not nice to see all this, i feel like i did with the whole apk, like shit happening and i can say or doign anything about it.
it seem me all got on better when we didnt have opinions about each other, i mean in the real world its hard to hold a gruge but here its hard not.
i never hold anythign against anybody, i dont see why i have the right to. [Joe]

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Joe, I know we've had our differences, but I hold no grudge. I must say that, in my time, I have disagreed with almost all of my friends on this issue. I am a minority, for sure. But, friends don't cast a relationship away over mere differences in belief. I've said it before, and I'll say it again; If you can't be yourself amongst your friends, they aren't really your friends. You should never have to hide your emotions and beliefs from a real friend, nor should you have to avoid a subject for fear of losing friendship. I've been around for many years now, and this is probably the most valuable lesson I've ever learned.

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My scientific evidence in favor of a creator is that there is no proof.
An old argument for sure, yet I took it further within myself.
(I will explain.)
No proof of an origin of the universe and no proof of the origin of life.
People have somehow got it in their heads that if they can "prove" evolution on a macro scale then it's a "done deal".
lol
My "book of myths" covers evolution, quite well. It is there for all to see. Acknowledged

You, figure it out. It took me 20yrs. I aint givin the answer away. Because it doesnt mean a thing to anyone, unless they figure it out on their own. I dont mind a little "hand holding" but come on [Valerian]

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Valerian, you've suddenly become very irresponsible to yourself and your belief system. I say this merely as constructive criticism. Furthermore, to claim that you have complete control over your emotions with the assistance of god, is a statement so arrogant I can't even begin to describe it. You'd have to be numb to ignore your own emotions, which is a crime in itself. IMHO
Too much of the world is very satisfied to pretend tragedy does not bother them. This is one of the things so very wrong with the world....it is the definition of apathy. Love has nothing to do with apathy. Maybe you should re-examine your philosophy.

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Here is the a major part of your argument. You can never start from the position of total denial of a god, gods, or messiahs. You will always be stuck with starting at a person named jesus, who you cant prove even ever existed. The old testament does not contain the word "jesus", not even once. So now you are contained with an argument that has only one source, the new testament, and what a shoddy source that is. You are basically screwed from the start. Thats a product of your RCC upbringing. You really never had a chance because they started programing you while your CPU and HD were in the developmental stage. I will be difficult to break that cycle, but it almost sounds like youre heading in the right direction. Nothing that a clean reformat wouldnt fix ! [Chuddds]

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Chuddds, although I'm not quite sure about your seemingly hatred point of view, I do agree with you on some very deep levels of your arguement. All of us have been programmed since birth. Luckily, my parents were not obsessed with filling me full of their beliefs, unless they knew it to be true beyond the shadow of a doubt.
In their doing so, I have been given the gift, the ability, to examine those things that most never question, from a fresh perspective. For that, I am forever grateful. Although, it has been my curse. Sometimes I wish I wasn't capable of this strange but wonderful method of thought, for it has been extremely frustrating at times.

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Been losing my sense of humour of late. [Andy]

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Andy, please say it ain't so!!! You've been one of the keys to enlightening this extremely fragile issue time and time again. If we hadn't seen a bit of humor here and there, I guess we would all be out for each others blood. LOL A sense of humor is probably the most important trait to have in dealing with topics of this nature. Those who have failed to keep this in mind, have been the ones who've gotten angry. I don't believe I've shown more than mere annoyance over any comments directly related to this topic, and I will continue to put forth the utmost effort to keep it that way. Why should anyone get angry just because there are mysteries unsolved? My curiousity is what keeps me going, in all aspects of life.

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Most Atheists have analyzed the available material evidence for the existence of one or more deities (gods and/or goddesses) and have concluded that there is no real evidence of the existence of gods or goddesses. They believe that the universe, Earth and its life probably evolved by perfectly natural processes. They see no evidence of intervention by a supernatural entity. They generally feel that ethical and moral systems governing human behavior can be developed without reference to any code of behavior of allegedly divine origin. Other Atheists are people who have simply never been exposed to belief in a deity or deities and therefore have no belief in them. [Memo]

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Memo, in some ways we are very much alike.
Although I don't consider myself an atheist, this entire quote describes my philosophy to the tee. Even though I refuse to state that there is no god as fact, I find myself identifying with more of your perspective, than disagreement. Our major difference is, as you know, that I won't claim anything is impossible unless there is also evidence to prove so. I consider this a true scientific standpoint. IMHO After all, most real scientific discoveries would've never been possible if thought totally absurd beforehand. That is probably the only line of thought that keeps me from labeling myself an atheist.

Info, raptor, and company;

I'm big enough to apologize for anything I've said that has offended you, if you'll do the same. I was half expecting a public apology from Info upon his return, but I still haven't seen it.(besides "bad bad bad", if you can consider that an apology)
The only reason I'd gotten mad in the first place, is due to the fact that Info seemed to cast away a friendship merely because of a difference in beliefs. This is unacceptable, and I have taken offense because I too do not believe in god. In his statements he lumped me in, along with anyone, who may have the same or similar beliefs. If this is the way he truly feels (and it sure seemed like it), we cannot be friends, ever. I've read his post over and over, and still can't seem to come to any other conclusion.

Ok, I think I'm up to date again. Can we continue?

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If you can't be yourself amongst your friends, they aren't really your friends. You should never have to hide your emotions and beliefs from a real friend, nor should you have to avoid a subject for fear of losing friendship [/QB]

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Gotta say that is well said. friends are friends no matter what your beliefs or views .

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Been losing my sense of humour of late. [Andy]
Andy, please say it ain't so!!! [SloppyGoat]

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There, feelin' better already! [Andy]

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Yep, I knew it was temporary. LOL [SloppyGoat]

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My scientific evidence ... blah-blah ... proof ... blah-blah ... journey ... blah-blah ... more of the same... [Valerian]

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"""Chuddds, although I'm not quite sure about your seemingly hatred point of view"""

Please dont interpret my humor as hatred. Perhaps my humor is not to the liking of anyone, but it is not hatred. My words may seem hateful, only because I am a very direct person and use at every chance the dramatic effect of speech(type) to only gain attention and conscience.

I dont hate any person. I dont hate any concepts. I just understand all, and try to explain, sometimes in an inflammatory manner(with humor), to raise one's level of awarness. Im not trying to convert, change, or lead anyones mind. But if I can at least solicit thought, then I will be satisfied with any conversation. Sometimes this requires a more uncoventional, abrasive style of speech. Some humans dont listen, dont want to listen, cant listen, so in those cases I try use dramatic effect to make a point. Is this technique correct or even effective?; usually no, but then nothing else would have worked also, so at the very least, it is entertaining !!!

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It's my Birthday tomorrow, take that off to and put it down to me.lol [theoldbogman]

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chuddds, if you are going to use the Bible to argue a point, why dispute it to argue another? Shit or get off the pot, my man. [Valerian]
I will shit, then get off the pot, and then wipe my ass with the new testament, thats all its worth. [chuddds]

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about 4 weeks ago i got some serious bad news and i may have to rearange my hole life, i didnt bring it here. [Joe]

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I am a history major.
And Ive seen people here post about the "writings" of this jesus. [chuddds]

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He appeared in Judea in the reign of Tiberius Caesar, He was a prophet. He preached after the fashion of the preceding Jewish prophets. He was a man of about thirty, and we are in the profoundest ignorance of his manner of life before his preaching began.

Our only direct sources of information about the life and teaching of Jesus are the four Gospels. All four agree in giving us a picture of a very definite personality. One is obliged to say: "Here was a man. This could not have been invented." [H. G. Wells]

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But just as the personality of Gautama Buddha has been distorted and obscured by the stiff squatting figure, the gilded idol of later Buddhism, so one feels that the lean and strenuous personality of Jesus is much wronged by the unreality and conventionality that a mistaken reverence has imposed upon his figure in modern Christian art. Jesus was a penniless teacher, who wandered about the dusty sun-bit country of Judea, living upon casual gifts of food; yet he is always represented clean, combed, and sleek, in spotless raiment, erect, and with something motionless about him as though he was gliding through the air. This alone has made him unreal and incredible to many people who cannot distinguish the core of the story from the ornamental and unwise additions of the unintelligently devout.

We are left, if we do strip this record of these difficult accessories, with the figure of a being, very human, very earnest and passionate, capable of swift anger, and teaching a new and simple and profound doctrine - namely, the universal loving Fatherhood of God and the coming of the Kingdom of Heaven. He was clearly a person - to use a common phrase - of intense personal magnetism. He attracted followers and filled them with love and courage. Weak and ailing people were heartened and healed by his presence. Yet he was probably of a delicate physique, because of the swiftness with which he died under the pains of crucifixion. There is a tradition that he fainted when, according to the custom, he was made to bear his cross to the place of execution. He went about the country for three years spreading his doctrine and then he came to Jerusalem and was accused of trying to set up a strange kingdom in Judea; he was tried upon this charge, and crucified together with two thieves. Long before these two were dead his sufferings were over. [H. G. Wells]

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Be well, all.

V.

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I'm sorry but it looks like I have to call this one. It was a god effort, 850 posts in total, but the subject has simply degraded and I sense a definite mood swing.

I had a wager saying ya’all would make it to 1000, ah well. I still won in the god vote. Anyone who disputes that fact will be immediately banned. I may ban the offender’s entire continent if it so pleases me.

I must say I have been impressed by the conduct of every one and I challenge you to find any board, anywhere in which this sort of volatile topic could have lasted so long.

I recommend we all now move on to the Elvis post…