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As for your other replies that you deleted, can you please repost them ? [chuddds]

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I have found this thread very entertaining, as I am sure others have also. [Infopro2]

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Originally posted by Joe At Work:
"kill Tim"
tim do you remeber me saying that, i dont think i did, for the simple fact if i had, tim wold have zd nets lawyers knocking on my door,
kinda like the time APK said id treaten to hack tim servers, how many attacks did tim log, none, seems theres alot of rumour about me.

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Funny you mention the zdnet lawyers issue, cuz I believe Tim DID bring that up at the time. Relaying the fact that they had legal resources in Europe also. But, the whole thing pretty much died after that. It was awfully goddam funny though !!!

Whatever happend to that APK guy? Maybe he is born again and now operates an islamic convent for deaf, mute, blind nymphomaniacs that own liquor stores !!! lolol Where in the hell do I meet one of those !?!?!?

Actually he is an alright guy. He has helped a ton of people. Problem is, he is absolutely in love with himself !!! At times, he would help me and I would appreciate the hell out of him. Then at others times, he could be so annoying that I wouldnt save his sister from drowning if she were taking a bath with me. And that is coming from ME !!! , whom most people respect as about as much as Charles Manson or Paul Rubens(who I happen to like) ! lolol

Anyways, Joe, this place wouldnt be as fun as it is without all its character, and you are certainly part of that. So dont go leavin or deletin your posts. Sometimes that is one of the most anxious parts of my day, waiting to read your posts !!! Its all opinion anyways, who cares what anyone else thinks, especially me !!!!!!!!! lololol

It was not an after death expirence but rather an out-of-body expirence of sorts. Sounds crazy, I know, but it wasnt a literal OOB. Here is what happend.

I used to go catachism and bible study classes just to debate the instructors, usually priests or ministers. Well, you can imagine that this behavior would get extremely exciting at times, and Im putting that mildly. Im large enough in physical stature to prevent most of the more energetic of confrontations, except for the evening I saw the " great beyond " I was in the bible belt south, southern Georgia to be exact, and had infiltrated my first group of southern-fried Georgia redneck hardcore baptists. Well, if any of ya'll have been to this part of the world, you can imagine how insanely stupid it was of me to befriend these people, and then suddenly become their anti-christ. BTW, has anyone here ever been to a bible study that the host served free Budwieser !?!?? Yes, its true !!! And let me tell you that beer, rednecks, and religous debates definately DO NOT mix. Well, to cut the story short, by the time Bubba and Jethro(names changed to protect the guilty, what !?!?) were finished mopping the floor with my ass, I suddenly expirenced a tremendous personal enlightenment, of which I refer to as seeing the great beyond. For some reason, at that moment of great physical pain and anguish, it all became clear to me what ALL religions are. I dont need to repeat that part do I??? Everyone here should know how I feel, if not, go back an check it out.

And valerians attempt to seperate christianity from religion, or even his brand of worship from religion, has been tried many times, but that doesnt work with me. I see through that charade like SaranWrap. It is just another futile attempt to justify one's core belief structure, because the real belief core, christianity, is so murderous, corrupt, and completely illegitimate. Memo has raised this point numerous times. And to blame all evil and tradegy on man, but all good and glowing with the legend of a god or goods is nonsense. The very christian bible disputes this idea and this idea is again, born out of christians interpreting the bible in a manner to make them feel better about themselves and their RELIGION !!! Hence, the hundreds of christian splinter groups. Funny, isnt it, that christianity itself is a splinter group.

Humanity and its' insecurities, its' attempts to mentally masturbate itself into reconignition and righteousness, and its' complete lack of intellectual capacity to form individuals instead of herds is the crux of my seeing "the great beyond". It is all very clear to me now.

quote:

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Originally posted by SloppyGoat
It's not human....

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lol It's human alright. With assistance.

quote:

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Originally posted by memo
If you afer dead how can you ask anything. And if you could ask for something wouldn't it be better to ask to be brought back to life?

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Now, you're getting it.

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Originally posted by chuddds
.... Or have the inhabitants of the good herd evolved to disregard moses's written laws?!?!? Imagine that(sarcasm) !"""

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If you are aware of the Old Testament, then surely you are aware of the New Testament. May I refer you to it. (no sarcasm).

quote:

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Originally posted by chuddds
...Just wondering why no christians addressed this post from Memo?

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I did address it. I said it was interesting. and.....?

quote:

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Originally posted by chuddds
christianitys' days are numbered.

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As andy has well stated above, privilege. Not right.
This discussion is beginning to unravel. I am actually quite impressed that it has been able to go on as long as it has.

I ask for another day or so, in which I will attempt to tie up the loose ends, that need attention.

Be well.

V.

--------------------

-------------------------------
It was Sister Niamh's job to drive into town and pick up the mail every morning but she was showing an increasing reluctance to do the job.
"Whats wrong?" asked Mother Superior, "I thought you enjoyed the daily excursion away from the convent."
"I do," said Sister Niamh "but lately a young policeman has taken to stopping me each morning."
Mother Superior said Niamh had nothing ro worry about if she didn't do anything wrong, and sent her on her way.
She had hardly driven for two minutes along the country lane when the motorcycle policeman signalled for her to stop.
"Oh no, not the breathalyser again," muttered Sister Niamh as the cop approached unzipping his fly.

------------------

Young Johnny is put out to play in the garden when his mommys "special" man friend comes to visit. Mummy told him to should upstairs if Daddy was comming home early.
About an hour passed and little johnny is playing in his sand pit when he hears Daddy's car comming down the road. He shout up to Mums window but there is no reply. So little Johny runs up the stairs and bursts into here rom shouting "daddys is coming, daddy is commin", he is just in time to see A man dispaer into Mummy's wardrobe. In the confusion Mummy throughs johonny in there too.

Johnny can hear Mummy welcoming daddy down stairs. "Its very dark in here" say Johnny. "Shut up and be quite kid!" snapped the man. "Thats my dad" he says to the man. "Look, what will it take to shut you up you little jerk" whispered the man harshly."£50 should do the trick" replies Johnny smugly.

The next week little Johnny is at school and they are all taken to church for confession. Johonny goes into the confesional first. When the door closes behind him he say "it very dark in here!". The vioce on the other side of the grille says "Don't start that Sh*t again."

------------------

God's invention
Henry Ford dies and goes to heaven. At the Gates, St. Peter greets Ford and tells him, "Well, you've been such a good guy, and your invention... the Assembly line for the automobile... changed the world. As a reward, you can hang out with anyone in Heaven you want." Ford thinks about it, and says, "I want to hang out with God Himself." So the befuddled St. Peter takes Ford to the Throne Room, and introduces him to God.

Ford asks God, "When you invented Woman, what were you thinking?"
God asks, "What do you mean?"
"Well," says Ford, "You have some major design flaws in your invention:
1. There's too much front-end protrusion.
2. It chatters way too much at high speeds.
3. Maintenance is extremely high.
4. It constantly needs repainting and refinishing.
5. Every 28 days it leaks fluid and is rendered out of service.
6. The rear end wobbles too much.
7. The intake is placed too close to the exhaust.
8. The headlights are usually too small.
9. Fuel consumption is outrageous.
"Hummmm," replies God, "hold on a minute."
God goes over to the Celestial Supercomputer, types in a few keystrokes, and waits for the results. In no time, the computer prints out a report and God reads it. God then turns to Ford, and says, "It may be that my invention is flawed, but according to these statistics, more men are riding my invention than yours."

--------------------------------

St. Peter's gate

Three men die and reach heaven´s door. There they meet St. Peter, and St. Peter says: "Allright, guys, if you want to enter here, you have to answer one question each to prove that you are real Christians." And so he asks the first one: "Who do you think, wrote the five books of Moses?"
The man replies: "Yeah, that´s an easy one. That was Moses!"
St. Peter says: "Well done, you may enter. Enjoy yourself!"
Then he asks the second one:"Who do you think, was the first man on earth?"
The man replies:"Gosh, that´s an easy one. That was Adam"
St Peter:"Yeah, you´re right, you may go in!"
Then he asks the third one:"What do you think, Mary thought, when the Holy Spirit came over her and made her pregnant?"
The third man replies: "Oh, oh! That´s a hard one..."
St. Peter: "Yeah, you´re right! You may enter!"

--------------------------------
Healthy Food

This 85 year old couple, having been married almost 60 years, die in a car crash. They had been in good health the last ten years, mainly due to the wife's neurotic interest in health food. When they reached the pearly gates, St. Peter took them to their mansion, which was decked out with a beautiful kitchen and master bath suite and Jacuzzi. As they "oohed and aahed", the old man asked Peter how much this was going to cost. It's free," Peter replied, Remember, this is Heaven."

Next they went out back to see the championship golf course the home backed up to. They would have golfing privileges every day, and each week the course changed to a new one representing the great golf courses on Earth. The old man asked, "What are the green fees?"
"This is heaven," St. Peter replied. "You play for free."

Next they went to the clubhouse and saw the lavish buffet lunch with the cuisine's of the world laid out.
"How much to eat?" asked the old man.
"Don't you understand yet?" St. Peter asked. "This is heaven. It's free!"
"Well, where are the low fat and low cholesterol foods?" the old man asked timidly.
"That's the best part...you can eat as much as you like of whatever you like and you never get fat and you never get sick. This is Heaven."
The old man looked at his wife and said, "You and your fu<king bran muffins. I could have been here ten years ago!"

--------------------------

2 Women at the Pearly Gates

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Originally posted by raptor:

Just who the Hell do you think you are goat...these guy's were here a LONG time before you and you act like your a better person..Maybe a MOD?...Ha-Ha...at some point and time most of these people on this board are going to see you for what you really are....a true wannabe...All i see you doing is telling people what to do..."don't come in here if you don't like it"...I'm sorry,I thought people could actually post an opinion on this board....plenty of threads have gone off topic and people don't seem to care...except you....are you just looking to increase your post count....I've also seen you post replies that had no pertenant "Info"
Bottom line sloppy...if you don't like it...don't come in.

Feel free to roast me...or send me threatning E-Mails...pretenders WILL do that..Ha-Ha

Oh...and just to keep it ON topic...I like Christmas.

Quote from Sloppy:
Ignore lifted momentarily]
Look man, all you're doing is making snide remarks. Just leave if that's all you're here for! We were doing just fine before your interuptions.

[Ignore again]

What are you.....like 10yrs old?
Grow up.

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I'm just trying to keep the peace raptor.

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Originally posted by Joe At Work:
your clearly not the strong silent type,

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Ford asks God, "When you invented Woman, what were you thinking?"
God asks, "What do you mean?"
"Well," says Ford, "You have some major design flaws in your invention:
1. There's too much front-end protrusion.
2. It chatters way too much at high speeds.
3. Maintenance is extremely high.
4. It constantly needs repainting and refinishing.
5. Every 28 days it leaks fluid and is rendered out of service.
6. The rear end wobbles too much.
7. The intake is placed too close to the exhaust.
8. The headlights are usually too small.
9. Fuel consumption is outrageous.
"Hummmm," replies God, "hold on a minute."
God goes over to the Celestial Supercomputer, types in a few keystrokes, and waits for the results. In no time, the computer prints out a report and God reads it. God then turns to Ford, and says, "It may be that my invention is flawed, but according to these statistics, more men are riding my invention than yours." """

Know what is really funny about this joke? Henry Ford was a Nazi and a horrific racist.

Ahhh, the irony !!!! And most Americans(Im American BTW) hold ford in very high regard. An icon, a great man, and even a hero. What a farce! He was a filthy anti-semite and the world will probably really never know this mans dasturdly deeds done dirt cheap !!!

Other than that, he was a great guy !!! lolol

Most Atheists have analyzed the available material evidence for the existence of one or more deities (gods and/or goddesses) and have concluded that there is no real evidence of the existence of gods or goddesses. They believe that the universe, Earth and its life probably evolved by perfectly natural processes. They see no evidence of intervention by a supernatural entity. They generally feel that ethical and moral systems governing human behavior can be developed without reference to any code of behavior of allegedly divine origin. Other Atheists are people who have simply never been exposed to belief in a deity or deities and therefore have no belief in them.

The following excerpt is quite indicative of the way atheism looks at life:

Madalyn Murray (later O'Hair), wrote a document used in the court case Murray v. Curlett, 1961-APR-27. It reads, in part:

"An Atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god. An Atheist knows that heaven is something for which we should work now - here on earth - for all men together to enjoy. An Atheist thinks that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue, and enjoy it. An Atheist thinks that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment. Therefore, he seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god. An Atheist knows that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An Atheist knows that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man. He wants an ethical way of life. He knows that we cannot rely on a god nor channel action into prayer nor hope for an end to troubles in the hereafter. He knows that we are our brother's keeper and keepers of our lives; that we are responsible persons, that the job is here and the time is now."

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Of course we don't bother with topics of god... [Infopro2]

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...the comments that continually posted, that have absolutely nothing to do with god. [Infopro2]

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I ask for another day or so, in which I will attempt to tie up the loose ends, that need attention. [Valerian]

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My "book of man written myths" defines the Christian church as the body of believers in Christ.
Not the ones who "kinda" believe.
Not the ones who say they believe.
Denomination doesnt even come into play.
Denomination is religion.
From within the confusing multitude of denominations there can be found authentic believers.
THAT is the "church" of Christ.
THAT is Christianity. [Valerian]

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We do not judge. [Valerian]

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If you steal from us, we will ask you what else you would like to take. [Valerian]

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If you kill our loved ones, we will forgive you. [Valerian]

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God is just. [Valerian]

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We are ridiculed. [Valerian]

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We mourn with God, when the children and innocents, die. [Valerian]

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God cannot interfere. [Valerian]

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God has given us free will.
To interfere, removes free will. [Valerian]

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Jesus, nailed to His wooden tower, is a receipt, that declares, Paid In Full.

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We are the fishers of men. [Valerian]

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We are the children of God. [Valerian]

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As are we all. [Valerian]

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See any replies you've seen before? That's because you're repeating yourself.

Sorry, Valerian. A load of twaddle. Again. I was genuinely hoping for some insight into how a thinking, educated man could arrive at his belief-system. I have friends - one in particular, a born-again Christian, whom I hold in the highest regard (g'day Deo, if you're there!) - with whom we have interesting discussions on this. Never does he blow me over with such rhubarb. We agree to disagree on the final conclusions - but at least he concedes the points I make, and offers some interesting angles in return. He makes me think.

"The Great Beyond"? - a lynching! I understand, now, chuddds.

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Originally posted by Joe At Work:
i agree with chuddds ford is a hero even an icon. god what a great man.

chuddds unless you knew the man you cant say anything about him, men are not judged by what they think but what they do, and he did alot, he helped millions, despite his short comings,
are you so rigged in your believes to think only the pure may do good.

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I didnt know Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Dahmer, Manson, Gasey, Custer; yeah, so I guess I cant say anything about them. Pfssst !!!

He sure did do alot. Like sending millions of dollars to Nazi Germany.

He sure did help millions; of white anglo-saxons. What did he do for hebrews, blacks, hispanics, and homosexuals? Do the research. The guy was a bastard. He just happen to be a very rich bastard.

You call financing one of the most murderous and tortuous regimes in the last 500 years a " short coming ". The guy hated jews. He openly admitted it. We know he helped finance rigged nazi elections.

Im so rigged in the evidence that I will call the Model T black, and h ford an anti-semtic financier for genocide.

Millions of ford fans, millions of americans, simply didnt know the TRUTH about this creep until the last 10 years.

Just like the vaticans' and popes' support for the nazis, even AFTER the war.

But christians dont care about hebrew genocide. Why is that? Because the jews murdered the jew they considered a lunatic, some freak named jesus, and that not one christo-republi-nazi on this board or anywhere else can even PROVE that she-he even existed.

There is speculation, that if this person named jesus did exist, then she-he was a homosexual. Poor moses, his great great nephew was a butt bandit !!!!! lololol

so what are you saying, if you cant help everyone, help no one,

"christo-republi-nazi" if im ever in need of a username

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...and had infiltrated my first group of southern-fried Georgia redneck hardcore baptists. [chuddds]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Joe At Work:
"He sure did help millions; of white anglo-saxons. What did he do for hebrews, blacks, hispanics, and homosexuals? Do the research. The guy was a bastard. He just happen to be a very rich bastard."

so what are you saying, if you cant help everyone, help no one,

"christo-republi-nazi" if im ever in need of a username :rolleyes:

ford was agreat guy, nobody really knew what was happening in those camps untill they were opened up.except afew high ranking germans.
whats makes you think ford did. maybe he hated jews, its human nature to hate and im not going to condem him for being human.

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Well, before we start a h ford thread, I will just say that I, and history, are not going to let him of the hook that easy.

My point was not that he didnt help other minority groups, but that he was a blantant bigot and went out of his way to make sure that those groups remained economically predejuiced.

He knew hitlers agenda and protocol. He wrote of hitlers views and speeches. You dont send millions of dollars to fund a political campaign without knowing. And thats not true that no one knew what was happening at Auschwitz and Dachau. Ive been to both. The word was out, it just wasnt realized to what extent. And even after the war, ford wouldnt retract his statements.

quote:

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Originally posted by andy:
[QUOTE] ...and had infiltrated my first group of southern-fried Georgia redneck hardcore baptists. [chuddds]

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And there is nothing in the gospel, whatsoever, that settles the matter of whether women can become priests one way or the other! (But I suspect you knew that.)[/QUOTE]

I am a history major.

I challenge ANYONE to show me evidence of a historical person named jesus. Other than the books of the new testament that valerian questioned me about. So this post is for valerian also. And Ive seen people here post about the "writings" of this jesus. Show me anything that this person jesus ever wrote. Prove he-she wrote it. You cant do it. Not one historian on this planet at the reported time of this persons life ever wrote one word about someone named jesus. Im telling you, christianity is a SCHAM !!! It is bullbutter. People like joe want me to die for saying things like this. But they would rather kill me than face the TRUTH !!! Not only is the religion of abraham all just mysticism and lengend, but the splinter faction of christianity is just an occult that prospers financially because its founder, Paul, used AmWay style multi-level marketing techniques to secure its foundation. And it plays on human insecurity and ignorance. How perfect. Pass the collection plate. The collective herd is more than willing to give it all to something that is a complete and utter farce !!!

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If you kill our loved ones, we will forgive you. [Valerian]
It's not human.... [SloppyGoat]
lol It's human alright. With assistance. [Valerian]

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If you kill us, we ask that you be forgiven. [Valerian]
...And if you could ask for something wouldn't it be better to ask to be brought back to life? [memo]
Now, you're getting it. [Valerian]

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If you are aware of the Old Testament, then surely you are aware of the New Testament. May I refer you to it. [Valerian]

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..Just wondering why no christians addressed this post from Memo? [chuddds]
I did address it. I said it was interesting. and.....? [Valerian]

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christianitys' days are numbered. [chuddds]
I concur. [Valerian]

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Religion is man reaching out to god.
Christianity is God reaching out to man. [Valerian's sig]

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Tim and Jim, the humble people on this board can not understand the ways of the Gods … LoL. Please no more floods, or red death on our poor board.

Andy, as ever sending over those long posts, no wonder so may of us have slow connections.

SloppyGoat, The perfect Answer, if only some others could see it that way.

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Joe, we aren't fighting. We're discussing....
What's so hard to understand about that?

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If you kill our loved ones, we will forgive you.

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Now to address the mighty Gods, who rule over this board, please No thunderbolts for saying this…
I have not been a member of this board for as long as many others, but I have looked in on this board every day for well over a year (and the old board) in all this time I have seen strangers go out of their way to help one another and to go on to become friends over some great distances, this makes the board a wonderful thing.
This thread has also become part of that wonderful thing in its own way, people from every walk of life, from all parts of the world decussing one of the most difficult topics for man to face up to.
This thread should continue as it up holds all that the board stands for. I come here to find information, I find it on all parts of this board, and I come for help, that is the same.
Members give advice and help to others every day, but many of the members may disagree on the form or wording of this advice or help, but I never see a flame war over these disagreements.
Why because it is up to the member who asks for help or advice to accept or use what he or she has been told.
The thread WYG and WYG 2 has taught me as many things about god, science, life, understanding, and acceptance of others beliefs, as the other sections of this board have taught me about my computer.
The members involved in this thread are mature adults who fully understand what is required of them to keep this topic with in the bounds of this board.
Jim said it all,

quote:

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I would also like to refer back to something I said initially when the topic started, that the only people I know who could discuss opposing sides for religion with out a fist fight were my dad and myself, I have never been so pleased to have been wrong.

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No proof of an origin of the universe and no proof of the origin of life.
People have somehow got it in their heads that if they can "prove" evolution on a macro scale then it's a "done deal".
lol
My "book of myths" covers evolution, quite well. It is there for all to see. Acknowledged.

Sally Morem's exquisite thesis, is an argument against a creator. She fails to see that this is the "factory". ('course, she has no reason to believe that. Does she? lol) In fact while she is showing off her beautiful, sleek and modern jet aircraft, cruising at 35,000 feet, without missing a beat, she shows us her parachute. She then goes on to take the time to point out the manufacturer of that parachute!
It's there. Look for it.

When I started out, on my journey for "the Truth", I had it in my head that all I would end up with, is a responsibilty, to no one other than myself. I was wrong.
Being raised in the RCC, did nothing but teach me that God was a hypocrite of the highest order. I saw selfishness and unfairness.
I wanted nothing to do with it.
I viewed this "Bible" as a bunch of horseshit, as most of you do now.
I no longer do.
Why?
That is a question that it took this discussion to answer, for myself.

Anyway, I had pretty much disregarded polytheism as an answer, due to the unavoidable inherent difficulties involved. I also threw out the "I am a God, if I just try hard enough" thing. For reasons I consider obvious to myself.
So I am left with a monotheist, or "me alone" line of thought.
Whatever.

So I said, "Self. If I was God and I wanted to create beings to worship me, how would I do it?"
Ok. Is that the motivation? Worship? Easy. After all, I'm infinite and all powerful! I would just create beings who had no choice but to think I'm the cats ass.
Done!
Yuck.
Friggin robots. No sincerity. No good.

Nope. They are gonna have to choose for themselves.
Free will.
Non-interference.
God doesn't "possess".

You, figure it out. It took me 20yrs. I aint givin the answer away. Because it doesnt mean a thing to anyone, unless they figure it out on their own. I dont mind a little "hand holding" but come on.

Noahs Ark? Please. Those people were a done deal and God knew it. Remember, there was no messiah then.

btw: non-interference is just that. No "trinity".

Jesus was a man. Not God. A man.
It was a man that fell. So it had to be a man that paid the bill.
If it was God hanging on the cross, then you might as well kiss free will goodbye.

The "trinity" was just some mans way of telling a believer that they understood something that the believer didnt.
It was bullshit then and it is bullshit now. But once you get a person who is just willing to take your word for it, well then, welcome to denomination central. The rest is history.

Doubt me? Good. Ask around about the Y chromosome.

Arrogance. Yeah.
The man Jesus, on the night before His execution, asked God to "take this cup from my lips". He didnt want to go through it. He made it perfectly clear, that He didnt want the job. Yet He said, "Your will not mine, be done."

Just drips with arrogance, don't it?

This is almost done.
You know what really gets me?
That people think they have to "throw out" their intellect (I'll use that one loosley) in order to believe in God.
Right chuddds? Sure. I'm just part of the herd.
Oh, right.
btw, chuddds, if you are going to use the Bible to argue a point, why dispute it to argue another? Shit or get off the pot, my man.

Speaking of "The Bible"; I placed an "abutment" to a statement made by a member of this discussion, in regard to The Bible.
No response.

andy, a finite number. Yes. Definitley.
Now ask yourself this;
Why would God ever desire to reach out to her own creation?

theoldbogman,
My condolences to you and your family.

Be well.

V.

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Well, it seems we are caught up in yet another termoil. It's a shame....it was such a nice atmosphere in here for what? Ten pages or so? Now we're back to what could be misconstrued as fighting. If we could just remain on the subject here, instead of lingering on past conflicts, maybe we could finish this little debate one day.

But I'm at work, and my lunch break is almost over, so I'll be back this evening.