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Topic: WHO'S YOUR GOD? II
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chuddds
New Member
Member # 3462
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posted June 10, 2001 02:16 AM
  
quote:
Originally posted by SloppyGoat:
You assume way too much little man. Don't you dare think you can talk down to me. I know all about herd mentality. Where did you get the idea I don't? You seem to be under the impression that you know a lot more than anyone. That makes you pretty damn arrogant, almost as arrogant as those with herd mentality.
The reason it was unclear, is because you don't explain yourself very well. It has nothing to do with a lack of interpretation on my part whatsoever! You're coming across as a very angry man. I can understand that somewhat, since I myself am quite disappointed in the human race as a whole.
But, I say again, don't you dare think you can talk down to me!!!The "great beyond" is more commonly known as death. Have you died and returned? That's the lack of clarity to which I was refering.
And to place me and any other agnostic under your level because you think you've seen something I haven't, is totally stupid. Especially, since you appear to have no unearthly idea what my perspective is on society. Maybe you haven't been reading this thing, but I have a very low view of our society because of "herd mentality".
You know what they say about assuming, right???
Maybe you shouldn't participate in this discussion if you can't keep your frustration under control. :rolleyes:
You're doing nothing but making a bunch of bitter statements that seem to condemn anyone but yourself. How about attacking this in an educated way? We could do without your lack of control. Unfortunately, herd mentality does run rampant on this Earth....you'll just have to learn to ignore or live with it somehow. We all have to. That doesn't mean you have to like it, of course. I pride myself in remaining in control of my frustration...something you need to learn. Or, you could just go out and start killing people, I guess. What other options do you have?
I guess I really got ur sloppygoat !!!! lolol
Most of that post was meant in humor, again. Guess u didnt find it to funny. Failed again. Oh well.
I have read all your posts. For me to talk down to you would be awfully stupid. I am aware of your intellect, therefore, I would NOT do that. The manner in which I replied to u was meant to be humorous, to try and lighten up a bit, thats all. Yep, ASS-U-ME !!!!!! Frustrated, angry, out-of-control, bitter !!!
MAN !, how much is this pyscho-analysis costing me !?!?!? I feel real uncomfortable lying on this couch !!! lololol
If that is my only option, Im gonna be real busy the next couple days !!! lol
Posts: 31 | From: | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged
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chuddds
New Member
Member # 3462
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posted June 10, 2001 02:25 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Joe:
reading chuddds post again i still cant believe the amount of stuff hes talking.
i shouldnt get involved in these things, none of them matter a damn in the real world, chuddds from your tone and manner its clear you have little expreience dealing with people and getting your point accross.i will remove all other replies from this topic as they will only serve to damage my good name on this board,
How can you possibly gauge my tone from reading something typed? Im amused by that ! The fact that you read my post more than once pleases me !!! Dont remove your replies, I truly enjoy anything you have to say, ANYTHING !
"you have little expreience dealing with people and getting your point accross."
Perhaps !!!!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 31 | From: | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged
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Valerian
Member
Member # 2839
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posted June 10, 2001 09:07 AM
quote:
Originally posted by SloppyGoat:
Ok, a little turbulence there. Where were we? Hehehe 
Right. The agnostic church.
Nuttin but religion.
Just like the rest of them.
Intolerance, wrapped in a cloak of tolerance. From what I see, it is actually the antithesis of Christianity. Still, it falls under #3. Be well. V. -------------------- If it wasn't for Long John Silver, all of us pirates would have been martyrs.-- Gordon Lightfoot
My specs.
Posts: 158 | From: | Registered: May 2001 | IP: Logged
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SloppyGoat
Member
Member # 2244
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posted June 10, 2001 11:10 AM
quote:
Originally posted by chuddds:
I guess I really got ur sloppygoat !!!! lolol
Most of that post was meant in humor, again. Guess u didnt find it to funny. Failed again. Oh well.
I have read all your posts. For me to talk down to you would be awfully stupid. I am aware of your intellect, therefore, I would NOT do that. The manner in which I replied to u was meant to be humorous, to try and lighten up a bit, thats all. Yep, ASS-U-ME !!!!!! Frustrated, angry, out-of-control, bitter !!!
MAN !, how much is this pyscho-analysis costing me !?!?!? I feel real uncomfortable lying on this couch !!! lololol
If that is my only option, Im gonna be real busy the next couple days !!! lol
That's ok Chuddds, I guess I didn't quite see the humor.  It's difficult to tell if you're joking, and I don't feel I've missed too much in my analysis of human nature. It's all pretty obvious to me. But yeah, you seem a bit angry about the herd mentality. I can understand though, it is frustrating to see so many people that seem incapable of thinking for themselves.(Religion, politics...etc)
Posts: 2321 | From: Another Universe.....or maybe under the table. | Registered: May 2001 | IP: Logged
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SloppyGoat
Member
Member # 2244
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posted June 10, 2001 11:24 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Valerian:
Right.The agnostic church.
Nuttin but religion.
Just like the rest of them.
Intolerance, wrapped in a cloak of tolerance. From what I see, it is actually the antithesis of Christianity. Still, it falls under #3. Be well. V.
Well, I guess anything you believe can be called your "religion", but the word is most commonly used to describe a belief in god or some other creator. In that sense, it falls short. All forms of monotheist religion require some type of ceremony or, at the very least, prayer.
My "religion" includes all of my beliefs; political, philosophical, non-religious, scientific...etc. That's just the way I use the word. I've often said that beer and guitar is part of my religion. LOL  Doesn't quite fit into the normal definition, does it? The real definition is of a spiritual nature and has to do with a dependence and responsibility to a supernatural being. I don't fit that description at all, so label it as you wish, but don't use it in the dictionary sense because it just doesn't fit the bill.
Posts: 2321 | From: Another Universe.....or maybe under the table. | Registered: May 2001 | IP: Logged
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Valerian
Member
Member # 2839
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posted June 10, 2001 11:57 AM
quote:
Originally posted by SloppyGoat
The real definition is of a spiritual nature and has to do with a dependence and responsibility to a supernatural being. I don't fit that description at all, so label it as you wish, but don't use it in the dictionary sense because it just doesn't fit the bill.
BINGO!! Excellent job, SloppyGoat. RESPONSIBILITY
Now, strip away everything in accordance to a dictionaries definition of religion, and what do you find that you have removed? Be well. V. -------------------- If it wasn't for Long John Silver, all of us pirates would have been martyrs.-- Gordon Lightfoot
My specs.
Posts: 158 | From: | Registered: May 2001 | IP: Logged
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SloppyGoat
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Member # 2244
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posted June 10, 2001 12:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Valerian:
BINGO!!Excellent job, SloppyGoat. RESPONSIBILITY
Now, strip away everything in accordance to a dictionaries definition of religion, and what do you find that you have removed? Be well. V.
Ummmmm.....everything Valerian. That was a slight variance of the dictionary's definition. I know what you're getting at....responsibility. But that has nothing to do with being rensponsible to a supernatural being. I can be responsible without believing in god, and I consider myself very much so.
Posts: 2321 | From: Another Universe.....or maybe under the table. | Registered: May 2001 | IP: Logged
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andy
Member
Member # 1618
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posted June 10, 2001 12:04 PM
quote:
The "great beyond" is more commonly known as death. [SloppyGoat]
No, no - surely this refers to the places even James T. Kirk hasn't visited. You know, "out there". Alien abduction, perhaps? This is interesting stuff, indeed! Let the man continue. Besides, perhaps he could do with the practice if not everyone understood his humour ("instant gremlins" come in handy for communicating "tone"  ) quote:
Let It Go. [raptor]
Good advice! And your supporting a friend is commendable (hi Infopro[2] - we've never met - only a single post to go on - not enough to form an opinion, anyway, even if I DID know the background - so, welcome back). Yes, let's move on. But JUST before we do, let's get one thing straight...
Remember Joe's first post in this thread (WYG I, page #1, post #24)? The difference between (personal) faith and (en masse) religion? (I have much respect for practical experience over "theory" - Joe's alright, BTW.)
Personal faith is not preached (read: spread like a disease). And a simple statement of personal viewpoint is not preaching (no attempt by intimidation to spread the "word").
The power of inflammatory words to incite should never be underestimated ("the pun is mightier than the sword" - often misquoted as: "the pen is mightier than the sword"). Although it's not the words, themselves - nor the ideas they invoke in the minds of others - it's the ACTIONS that ultimately stem from them that cause the trouble, consider this...
Infinity, cyclic phenomena, irrational numbers and... baloney (part 3b - irrational numbers):
I've almost completed work on my - hmmm, what would you call it - virus isn't right as it insinuates itself into a host machine more in the fashion of the BSE protein ("mad cow" disease). Perhaps MS ("mad system") disease will do.
It mutates randomly to avoid fingerprinting by anti-virus software - which don't stand a chance against it. It's written in assembler which gives me countless variations to work with. A single statement in a higher level language can be written in umpteen different ways using machine code. What's more, each different way can be implemented slightly differently again - also with many variations to choose from. For example, instead of loading a value into the EBX register, I can use the ECX or the EDX register, etc. Motorola chip detected? Even more to choose from (D0 - D7, A0 - A6). I can pick up data 32 bits at once or 16 or 8 bits at a time. And, if I add a NOP instruction (no-operation) here and there, all branch offsets (IF/THEN/ELSEs, DO WHILEs) etc. change - along with the total size. And then there are the different addressing modes (to address the same data) I can employ. And other techniques.
It also circumvents intrusion detection software (which compute "checksums" or "message digests" of all files on your drive and regularly compares them to see if anything has changed) by recomputing these checksums (UNLESS the database is stored on a read-only partition - which kinda makes Windows servers a little vulnerable this way  ).
But thanks to the advent of EEPROMs (flash ROMs), which always have a bit of spare (unused) patch area, I needn't bother with hiding it on disk, anyway - this narrows down invulnerable machines quite a bit, I might add.
Even better, it only need hide itself initially, while it snoops the buss, only running when there's some other activity going on (very hard to detect in action) until it has inserted itself into some other system task (impossible to detect in action).
It is small.
It is efficient.
There is no defence (resistance is futile)!
It's ultimate target is software vendors' machines, where it goes about its business of rewriting code destined for distribution CDs - at which point, those (few) invulnerable machines left will also fall victim.
"IRC bots" are mere child's play in comparison! Soon, I will control every machine on the planet with my bots!
But what to do with all this power?
Should I add a few zeroes to my bank balance? (Or remove some zeroes from the accounts of those I dislike?) Should I use it to bring down the machines of people that have DARED to disagree with my own personal views? Perhaps post bogus news items showing "evidence" of paedophilia by those same people (it's amazing what you can do with photo re-touching software, these days).
So many choices! Decisions, decisions.
But then, I think, hang on - I don't want to do anything I might regret later. I would have to live with that for the rest of my life. Whatever I do, it must be consistent with my "beliefs" - my code of ethics or morality - the things that FEEL right. Dang! (I could do with a few extra zeroes on my bank balance, too!)
So now, instead, I am busily modifying sections of the code to achieve a more worthy goal - something that will leave me at peace with myself (it will install Linux everywhere and remove all evil proprietary code wherever it finds it).
Oh, hang on a mo'...
Whoops, that was part 3b of "irrational WORDS" ...wrong post, sorry (I'll fix that, zz300 - in the meantime, perhaps you could elaborate on "manipulating physics" as a means of procuring cut-price beers - sounds like a good'un ). Moving on... quote:
Instead of 3 cheers I propose 69 cheers for The Warden Jim....
Unless I miss my bet Andy we all are waiting on you,Valerian and Sloppy to lead us to the promised land. [Mankind]
I see you, and raise you. 99 cheers! (and some more stars)
And thank you (stars for you, too). But you do realise we're all makin' it up as we go along, don't you! Heh. I can't speak for the others, but I strongly advise against following ME anywhere. The story of MY little personal journey can be summed up as follows...
13 years (there's that number again) without a car accident!!! And when should I have another? In the (very) brief window between letting my insurance lapse and renewing it - when bloody-well else!!!! Sure, I survived it (just) - but only so that I may be around to provide more cruel enjoyment (I am Her plaything, I'm sure - there can be only One Explanation - for this and other similar events in my history). Still, it HAS given me a what-will-be-will-be outlook on life. quote:
Thou shalt not kill [forget who said that - perhaps someone can provide a reference for us
Of course, in Texas - the home state of your president (bible in hand, other hand on heart) - it's OK. Must've got special permission from a higher authority, I suppose. Being close 'n all that, it shouldn't have been a problem, eh?
...or IS it OK? What's this on the news? Floods!?  Jim? Tim?
Well, you don't have to believe in God to think life is precious. It could be argued (I'm about to do just that) that the opposite holds true.
If you believe that simply believing will ensure you a Snug Corner in Heaven then, hey, who needs commandments? That poor old bloke lugged those (must've been heavy) stone tablets across the desert for nothing! (I hear Valerian politely pointing out that when one truly believes, one automatically follows these good rules - Valerian hears me not-so-politely replying: pigs arse!)
If, on the other hand, you suspect that THIS is the only life we are ASSURED of, then life becomes ever more precious - kill it and it's most likely gone! Forever (an infinite amount of time)! Taking a life then becomes something you don't do lightly.
But what to do about those individuals that take tens or hundreds of lives? We've got a couple of them, too. They're currently enjoying bed 'n board compliments of myself and other taxpayers. Even get to watch the telly (also paid for by taxpayers). And round-the-clock protection (from other inmates ever ready with an ice-blade or two)!
Some arguments against capital punishment are real enough. Make a mistake and you've snuffed out an innocent life. Can't just say "whoops, sorry" and carry on! But why must we generalise so? Why can't we take each case on its merits? In general, I'm against capital punishment. But I also support its use in special cases. I'll use a (real) local example...
A dude went troppo with a military assault rifle and shot and killed 36 people he didn't know - including a baby in its mother's arms (and the mother)! Numerous survivors witnessed it first-hand. There was ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT that they'd got the right guy. The crime fits the category of being sufficiently heinous (by a country mile!) - this guy will NEVER be released from prison! He should have been executed by the end of the week, IMHO!! No appeals (on WHAT grounds, exactly? a techniCALITY??), no cameras (sick voyeurism!) - just get the job over and done with - and then forget about him (stop immortalising bad guys). 
There's a chap making news all around the world at the moment who deserves a similar fate, IMHO. Looks like he's gonna get it, too. Lotsa people making money with the side-shows, though - which I find distasteful.
Now compare the long-abused wife who finally retaliates and kills her husband. Death to her? I think not. Sure, there will be grey areas - then take the safe route, there - but the clear-cut cases?
OK, what's this got to do with God, religion, et al? (I've already had my fun with the hypocrisy surrounding this.) Well, to take this kind of drastic action requires that WE take responsibility - no hiding behind ancient lore and mystical books that "guide" us with broad, sweeping commandments. I'll just repeat that: WE must take responsibility for our own actions. Period. And why not? It's a bit harder defending crusades, sundry witch-hunts and the like based on: "because WE think it's the right thing to do" - isn't it? We'd have to a little better at justifying it, for a start (it's not an "improper" question to query human motive - it IS to do the same of God).
(As no one has yet defended the vilification of homosexuals sub-thread - thought I'd start another one.) quote:
The agnostic church.
Nuttin but religion.
Just like the rest of them.
Intolerance, wrapped in a cloak of tolerance.
From what I see, it is actually the antithesis of Christianity. [Valerian]
Well, anyone calling themselves a "church" may well be yet another (intolerant) religion. But it's just a name. My views, which are most closely described as agnostic (I hate labels, though - it lumps me in with people I don't necessarily agree with), cannot be described as intolerant, however. And I WILL NOT TOLERATE any opposing views on this matter - IS THAT CLEAR?!
As for being the "antithesis" of Christianity, to which particular branch (original, numerous evolutions, perversions, imposters, etc.) do you refer? I can think of two branches of "Christianity" that are each the antithesis of the other.
BTW, I have taken no offense (I think you know that but, in light of the recent "fires" in this vicinity, thought I'd better state it, anyway).
Posts: 1796 | From: Australia | Registered: May 2001 | IP: Logged
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Valerian
Member
Member # 2839
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posted June 10, 2001 12:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SloppyGoat
. I can be responsible without believing in god, and I consider myself very much so.
Indeed.
Yet I choose to be responsible in believing in God, then what is it, I have a right to expect from God in return? Be well. V. btw:
what is that whistling noise? -------------------- If it wasn't for Long John Silver, all of us pirates would have been martyrs.-- Gordon Lightfoot
My specs.
Posts: 158 | From: | Registered: May 2001 | IP: Logged
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memo
Administrator
Member # 2
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posted June 10, 2001 12:33 PM
The "great beyond" is here and now. It's what we do with our lives. How far shall we take our body of knowledge? This is the great beyond, beyond this is nothingness, as obscure as that word might seem, try real hard to remember what it was like before you were born. That is nothingness, a state of non being to which we are returned after our brief passage thru life.Resting in utter vacuum. Just oblivious of even the notion of existance is the only logical end to life. Why bother trying to perpetuate tomorrow at an idylic place what we were unable to accomplish when we had a chance? This is it, and if we don't do it while we can, it won't get done somewhere else. It is a nostrum very much relished by religious people, to think that they will have another shot at being happy is the ultimate cop out and irresponsibility. Of course, to reach to this conclusions you need not be afraid of nothingness, you must accept it as the elongation of a period of lucidness, and then back to where we came from. Nothing. The act of procreation itself should explain it quite clearly. We were born because there were two people that decided (or not) to have a child. That is pretty much a scientific area where there are no more mysteries. We grow, we develop our acumen, we start to decay and then we die. Giuseppe Ungaretti, a great Italian poet said it best: "You reach death by living" (the translation doesn't really convey the feeling as in the actual language it was written), but you'll get the picture. Cheers. -------------------- Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends.
Posts: 2920 | From: San Francisco, California USA | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
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SloppyGoat
Member
Member # 2244
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posted June 10, 2001 12:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Valerian:
Indeed.
Yet I choose to be responsible in believing in God, then what is it, I have a right to expect from God in return?Be well. V. btw:
what is that whistling noise?
Hehehe....that, I believe, was The Toxic Typist's incoming bomb. LOL Well Valerian, I don't have to be responsible for anything but my own actions, just as you don't. Why would you seek approval from some supernatural being that only seems to answer your calls with riddles? I noticed that after I stopped believing in god (way back when I was just a kid) nothing changed in the random patterns of my life. If you'd lost your "faith", you'd notice the same. This brings me to the conclusion that there never really was any "great god" punishing or rewarding me for being me.
As far as the church thing Andy, I believe that's merely a play on words to describe a group of people with the same or similar beliefs....more of a pun than anything else.
Of course, I had nothing to do with the writing of "The Agnostic Bible", but it has some very valid points in which I agree almost entirely.
I too probably can't be considered a "real" agnostic in the true definition of the word, I guess. I have my own belief system, and it works for me.
If you can get over the choice of words used in this "bible"(LOL), give it a good reading. The views written are some of the best I've seen on the subject. It's very open, as it covers pretty much all angles without bias. "The Agnostic Bible"
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Infopro2
New Member
Member # 3747
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posted June 10, 2001 12:51 PM
quote:
... supporting a friend is commendable (hi Infopro[2] - we've never met - only a single post to go on - not enough to form an opinion, anyway, even if I DID know the background - so, welcome back). *andy*
I understand from Jim, I have another friend here also. seems this person lives near me, and is trying to help "get back" at a few of you in some way. by posting bad comments.
I do not condon it, nor know about it. I have many friends that come to these boards and mine, and I have not seen the posts that I was told about. I only come down to a certain level once in a great while, and my attitude in the other thread was bad, bad, bad. It will not happen again, as will seeing people thru rose colored glasses, as I did before. I believe that people's ways of being towards others speaks for itself, over time.
My opinions of those of you who have been a bit nasty towards me at this board as I said above, speaks for itself. And shows that person for who they are.
I will not respond to those kinds of words.
Say what you want, as Jim also says, it's just words.
I have always been willing to help someone who has asked, and continue to try and do just that.
This board is for that kind of thing, as is mine. Although mine is more layed back, and not just about tweaking. It's about friends. I've only ever really snapped a few times at people here, or anywhere. APK being one, and recently memo.
Both of those are behind me. Old news if you will. So andy, hello.
I don't spend much time here at all these days. just a bit busy. But those who indeed know me, know I don't call people names, nor do I send threatening mail to them. Why would I?
That's for morons who get kicks that way.
I get my kicks helping friends. always did.
I learned from memo, the good feeling of being able to help someone, from the way he used to be when I lived here.
My personal beliefs are, as someone else put it here, "my own" As I think we all should try and do. After all, it's the "world wide web" I thought, not the "wild, wild west" as it seems sometimes.
I remember back at 3dfiles, the lounge there was a nasty place to visit for some. It seems like this one is a bit different, and thats cool. This thread, and the other, IMO do nothing but make certain people look bad, for the most part. And it's a shame that this topic was even brought up, or turned into what is has. Jim, as far as the thunder storms go, ease up on Jamdog down there in houston, his cable has been out for days cause of the rain.
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memo
Administrator
Member # 2
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posted June 10, 2001 01:14 PM
quote:
I learned from memo, the good feeling of being able to help someone, from the way he used to be when I lived here.
And you still need to learn a thing or two if you think I've changed my way of thinking or demeanor. I still get my kicks helping people and I have not changed. Maybe you did, and in doing so your discernment got clouded. Cheers. -------------------- Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends.
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Valerian
Member
Member # 2839
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posted June 10, 2001 01:18 PM
Yes.
I read the agnostic bible.
I then surfed for everything I could find in regard to the agnostic church.Church.
My "book of man written myths" defines the Christian church as the body of believers in Christ.
Not the ones who "kinda" believe.
Not the ones who say they believe. Denomination doesnt even come into play.
Denomination is religion. From within the confusing multitude of denominations there can be found authentic believers. THAT is the "church" of Christ.
THAT is Christianity. We dont care if you are black/white/yellow/man/woman/homosexual/victim/murderer/liar/thief/muslim/christian/buddist/etc.
We do not judge.
We love.
If you are cold, we will give you our coats.
If you are hungry, we will feed you.
If you steal from us, we will ask you what else you would like to take.
If you kill our loved ones, we will forgive you.
If you kill us, we ask that you be forgiven.
We are the ones who stop to help, when your car breaks down.
We are the ones who comfort the victim, and the perpetrator.
We are the ones who give up our place in line. We are Christians.
We have chosen this of our own free will.
We take responsibilty for our actions and acknowledge Gods responsibility to us.
God is just. We are ridiculed.
We do not care. We mourn with our God, for mankinds choices.
We mourn with God, when the children and innocents, die. God cannot interfere.
God has given us free will.
To interfere, removes free will. Jesus, nailed to His wooden tower, is a receipt, that declares, Paid In Full.
We accept the sacrifice. We are the fishers of men.
We are the children of God.
As are we all. Be well. V. -------------------- If it wasn't for Long John Silver, all of us pirates would have been martyrs.-- Gordon Lightfoot
My specs.
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Topic Closed
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posted June 09, 2001 11:00 PM
posted June 10, 2001 07:21 AM
